Bike Bus Idea

[joe]

Starting a new thread for Todd's idea. :)

Todd wrote:

I posted this over at ibiketo but I think that this might be a better place to actually discuss it as an idea instead of a one-off comment:

"I think when it comes to drivers' arguments against infrastructure it comes down to "possession is nine tenths of the law". We're already here so 'suck it up' Perhaps, with that in mind, instead of waiting to be given things we need to take them.

It's a pie in the sky idea (and maybe not the right one - perhaps another idea will be inspired by this) but what if on streets like Bloor people were to bunch up in groups of 15-20 during rush hour - with various meeting places along bloor before continuing on. Once the group was at an adequate size they proceed, taking the lane like we do in Critical Mass (but obeying traffic signals). It would sort of be a "bike bus" meets critical mass idea. This would legally create more disruption (more leverage for getting infrastructure) while giving us the safety we hope to get from the lanes.

When ants are flooded out of their nests, they do not all swim in the direction they're trying to go, they mass up into a writhing ball and float away to better weather the storm. Perhaps we need to take a cue from them?"

I'm wondering if this isn't something we could actually organize. I think a good step towards our getting what we want is keeping up. Bike Buses are not a new idea (have a look at one in the UK here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_e3awuYiDE). If we could get something like this going in TO we could both help some of the less comfortable folks get started cycling to work and provide more safety for those of us already on the roads. With this approach, we could have all the benefits of the bike lanes but with fewer parked cars ;-)

Sure, as one person (Luke) pointed out, we could just wait for this to naturally help it along but the more I think about it, organizing it in the beginnning could help speed up the process a little.

Thoughts?

Then Tory wrote:

ha, similarly. I thought it would be disruptive and great if critical mass were to 100% obey traffic laws, which includes riding single file.

Imagine, all of critical mass riding single file through an intersection, it would be impossible for a driver to make a turn during a green light, and this would happen for several light changes. Essentially no left hand turns would be made except those daring enough to gun it at the end of the light. Only right had turns could exist because of the ability to turn on reds... unless the cyclists act as if there is a bike box!

I like the group riding idea.. I usually keep a pretty quick pace when commuting, but often if I come up to someone slower, I will slow down just to be around another cyclist.

[Todd Tyrtle]

Oh look - you already started the thread for me!

Like I said in the original thread - I'm out of town for a few more weeks which kind of stinks as I would like to be on the ground there helping out. I'll do what I can from Quebec City but can't be as involved in the actual action.

Anyway, in addition to this, there's been a fair bit of discussion here: http://www.ibiketo.ca/node/2293 including one great one from Luke Siragusa who said:

...holding a mass cycling demonstration at the official media event -- I'm anticipating an official announcement or presentation of the plan right in the Bloor/Yorkville vicinity.

We'll all ride down Bloor, park front and center, ring bells, give the hosts and speakers the third degree, putting 'em on the hotseat. In short we'll completely co-opt the proceedings.

The BIA et al will have done all the work of convening the media and we'll show up the steal the spotlight right out from under them. Publicity and exposure is the first step to turning the tide.

Let's do it...emailing Hamish from takethetooker.ca right now...

I feel fairly convinced that bike lanes will not readily be put in places like this to make cyclists safer, but they *will* be put in place if traffic is slowed because of all of the bike traffic.

Wish I made it to that cycling activism workshop a while back. Hopefully some folks here have some ideas as to how to turn an idea like this into reality.

[Tory]

I feel fairly convinced that bike lanes will not readily be put in places like this to make cyclists safer, but they *will* be put in place if traffic is slowed because of all of the bike traffic.

Super interesting point

[Todd Tyrtle]

So how do we organize this? I'm wondering if it may be as simple as a 4-6 interested "bus drivers" waiting at Church & Bloor and Spadina and Bloor with signs designed to attract attention and then encouraging folks to wait the 5 min or so it would take at rush hour to mass up before taking off as a group. Once the group gets to the other end of the route, the "driver" waits to return in the other direction. With a small handful of drivers we could sustain this for a while, I think.

Just a thought - any other ideas?

[Pouya]

I think this is a great idea!

I think one of the problems in Toronto is that drivers are not used to cyclists sharing the same road. Toronto roads were not designed to be shared with cyclist especially as you move away from the core of the city.

I was just involved in a car accident near Eglinton and Yonge last night. A car hit the side of my bike totally bending the rear wheel. Luckily not my leg though. He said he did not see me at all!!! I was wearing light clothing with reflectors and lights in the front and rear.

As it explains in the YouTube video, if cyclist rode along side each other we would definitely be more visible and I think this idea can eventually work also during the non-rush hour times when more cyclists become interested.

[Todd Tyrtle]

Anyone have an idea how to actually get this started? I'm back in town for 2 weeks starting the 25th and am actually on vacation so I could take on some of this. Seems we could use a bit more of a presence on Bloor now with all the stupid developments as of late.

Question is, how to get it from a handful of us liking the idea of it here to a bunch of people actually *doing* it on the street?

[Todd Tyrtle]

FYI - hoping to reach a few more folks - started a group over on facebook to discuss the idea: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25062637517

[joe]

I've tried to read up on "Bike Buses" in other cities, but haven't been able to find information on how to start them up... I've had limited success with BikeFriday Group Commutes.

The ideas coming to me now include:

1) a publicly-editable google-map where people can share their commutes (routes, start times, etc)

2) lots of promotion on here, facebook, bikingtoronto.com, other sites

3) some kind of regular social event to build community

[Todd Tyrtle]

Maybe we're thinking too big to start. Maybe a one-off event to pilot test the idea. get 3-4 people to lead groups starting at a couple points on Bloor and see what happens.

The tricky part is that the target demographic, IMO, is people who are trying to get started but are a little nervous about it. Everywhere I can think of to promote this is populated by established cyclists. Not a bad thing, but I think they will not see it as being as valuable as the person out at Broadview and Danforth who hasn't been on their bike in 20 years but is tired of paying $1.35/litre.

The time may be here for a brainstorming in-person meetup for whomever is interested. I'm going to be back in town - maybe we can get a few interested folks together just before or after Streets are for Picnics?

[Todd Tyrtle]

I'm back in town for a little while (aside from a quick vacation from next Tuesday until the following) And so we can do a bit more planning:

Bike buses will be riding along Bloor in the coming weeks.

Help make cycling on Bloor safer. We are calling on experienced Toronto bike commuters to help create a safe commuting experience for novice riders.

Ride with a bike bus to help establish a safe environment for cyclists on Bloor.

Q & A / Brainstorming

Sunday July 27th 7pm
Futures Bakery Patio
483 Bloor St. W
Bloor and Brunswick

[e-mail]

(Thanks to Chris Brennan for creating/distributing fliers at Critical Mass tonight!)

[Bruce Gavin Ward]

This idea, while sound, would be very hard to organize in any universal way, and,as usual implies that all biking is commuting. We need to build numbers 'on the street' and etiquette for riding where minimasses rule the day.
[also few cyclists actually ride at the same speed, except on 'social' rides.]

[Todd Tyrtle]

All of your comments are true. Fortunately "hard to organize" just means exactly that - hard to organize and not impossible.

It's really a question of sacrifice in that what are we willing to sacrifice in order to get more folks on the road? Am I willing to go a bit slower, take a somewhat different route? Absolutely.

I think for me this has been both a very cool and very frustrating part about the cycling community we have here. There are so many different folks and many of us are in it for the freedom and independence offered by this mode of transport. We're so diverse that discourse (at least the online part) can easily turn to bickering and any sort of activism becomes something of an exercise in cat-herding.

I've pretty much given up on the city itself for doing anything of real import. The bike plan is worthless without parking enforcement in the summer and plowing in the winter. We need to look out for ourselves but how do you motivate a community of 'rugged individualists' to get together and actually do something? And that, of course, assumes that many people have *time* for the doing of something.

So as I see it, our options are - keep pressuring the city and end up with a few hundred km of free parking, loading zones and snowbank storage, wait for $5/litre oil to *force* a change, or affect our own change even if it might be hard to organize at the start. There are certainly enough success stories from elsewhere in the world that show that organizational difficulties can be overcome.

Of course the remaining option is to just sit back, wait, and let what happens, happen. Of course with this final option, all right to complain is lost and I'm not ready to give up that right just yet.

All that aside, anyone with an easier to organize option is encouraged to step forward and offer it.

[Todd Tyrtle]

We're getting together for another planning session at 8PM on August 5th on the patio at Future Bakery on Bloor (Bloor & Brunswick) Looking for leaders and participants to start very soon. More details here:

http://www.ibiketo.ca/node/2405